tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post116639077405103835..comments2023-10-19T07:54:32.841-04:00Comments on Quod She: Who taught you your moves?Dr. Viragohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03960384082670286328noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1168291428202191512007-01-08T16:23:00.000-05:002007-01-08T16:23:00.000-05:00I just finished reading it today, and WOW, it seem...I just finished reading it today, and WOW, it seems incredibly useful for the writing class at just about any level.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for suggesting it! (Just think, you can put this on your CV as service or something. :)Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1167256985873263712006-12-27T17:03:00.000-05:002006-12-27T17:03:00.000-05:00I'm reading "They Say, I Say" right now, and I'm r...I'm reading "They Say, I Say" right now, and I'm really blown away with how useful it is -- thank you for mentioning it.<BR/><BR/>I like Katie's idea, too -- might use it in my 200-level lit class this spring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1166548764442641762006-12-19T12:19:00.000-05:002006-12-19T12:19:00.000-05:00Thanks for the feedback, everyone. And Katie, tha...Thanks for the feedback, everyone. And Katie, that sounds like a great idea. I don't know if I'll use it next semester -- I've already got my syllabi jam-packed, of course! -- but I'll keep in mind. It would be especially easy to do in my Chaucer course.Dr. Viragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960384082670286328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1166461627039421372006-12-18T12:07:00.000-05:002006-12-18T12:07:00.000-05:00Thanks for the book suggestion!I did a lot of work...Thanks for the book suggestion!<BR/><BR/>I did a lot of work with my grad students this semester talking about articles and how they were asking questions and constructing arguments. But I'm not sure it worked well at all. It's hard to tell when some people seem to just get it.<BR/><BR/>I'd say careful reading of other articles with attention to the moves and use of sources of different types should help.Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1166426292794074992006-12-18T02:18:00.000-05:002006-12-18T02:18:00.000-05:00Most colleges have a "Comp 101" or equivalent, but...Most colleges have a "Comp 101" or equivalent, but my experience in that class was that the teacher was trying to teach the people who didn't know how to write at all, something equivalent of a high school paper - so it was a bit of a waste of time for those students who knew the basics and above. I would have groused against another compulsory class, but it would have been useful if we had been forced to take a "How to Write a Research Paper" class - even if it was a 1 credit class once a week. As it was, it took a lot of trial and error and learning by example and from mistakes to figure out how to write a passable research paper. <BR/>I think you have the right idea, Dr. V. Oh, and Katie, loved your imagery of the squeezed-out Colgate - had me chuckling for a long while.Anniinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11293294133521209973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1166404736700917312006-12-17T20:18:00.000-05:002006-12-17T20:18:00.000-05:00This has been much on my mind lately too, since I'...This has been much on my mind lately too, since I've decided that my intro theory class will also be a welcome-to-the-seminar-paper class. <BR/><BR/>I really like the Graff book, and I've made all my thesis students get it. I'm also going to have the Director of College Writing come in and talk about writing seminar papers. But let us know as you come up with other ideas (as will I).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1166398562787864252006-12-17T18:36:00.000-05:002006-12-17T18:36:00.000-05:00The best exercise I was assigned as an undergrad (...The best exercise I was assigned as an undergrad (and which made my brain feel like a squeezed-out tube of Colgate) was:<BR/><BR/><I>Write a book review of Critic X, pretending that you are in fact Critic Y.</I><BR/><BR/>It was a short, 2-3 page assignment, and it required the student to clearly identify his/her own position first before constructing an argument as someone else. I was a sophomore, I think, and it was the first time I really had to differentiate between <I>my</I> ideas and someone else's - I couldn't prop up my lame argument with quotations, because the entire assignment was to construct an alter ego's argument.<BR/><BR/>Some variation on this might be useful: discuss primary text A from the position of Critic X, and then from the position of Critic Y, or something - it taught me a lot!Katiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08090338190550656545noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1166398270441433922006-12-17T18:31:00.000-05:002006-12-17T18:31:00.000-05:00Hi Feirefiz!Yes, the undergrads do need more work ...Hi Feirefiz!<BR/>Yes, the undergrads do need more work on how to use the primary text evidence and what to do with it. And, frankly, so do the grad students sometimes! But the practice you described in your PF paper -- finding *everything* and incorporating it *all* -- is definitely what a lot of the grad students are doing right now. I just talked to my Victorianist colleague and she said she's going to try to incorpate teaching the rhetorical moves of academic writing into her grad seminar next semester -- they're going to take a class or two just to unpack the structure and rhetoric of a secondary article -- and now I feel guilty for not doing the same in my own! Gah! But I'm definitely going to do so in the methods class from now on, and if I can at least introduce it to the undergrads -- some of whom become our grad students -- it's a start.Dr. Viragohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03960384082670286328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15231380.post-1166394078783734032006-12-17T17:21:00.000-05:002006-12-17T17:21:00.000-05:00Hi Dr. Virago,That sounds like a good book to assi...Hi Dr. Virago,<BR/>That sounds like a good book to assign. I have the same problem with my students, more so with the undergrads. The grad students need to be more forceful and authoritative in their use of secondary sources; they tend to use sources for support and they tend to be too agreeable. The undergrads have trouble with showing evidence from primary texts even when research isn't part of the assignment. With the undergrads I've tried to analyze a selection from an article to show them how to use evidence and make arguments but it hasn't taken root in their brains. I've try to also take antagonistic positions or critique secondary articles we read in my grad classes, and they'll go along and can offer critiques in class but then in the papers, not so much. I learnt to write through imitation of other academic papers I thought were good. My very first research paper was a college class on Chaucer, actually. It sucked, even though the professor gave me an A. I basically found everything that was written (that the college owned) on Parliament of Fowles, and tried to integrate it all in while sustaining an argument. But even then I felt overwhelmed by all that's been said and the problem intensified when I wrote my honors thesis (even more research!). It was only in grad school that I started doing the agonistic structure of "They say/I say" and only when I felt more grounded in my field to feel more comfortable claiming authority.Feirefizhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00024919688932951601noreply@blogger.com